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	<title>Comments for identity campaigning</title>
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	<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on After Copenhagen by hrld11</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2009/12/709/comment-page-1/#comment-2126</link>
		<dc:creator>hrld11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=709#comment-2126</guid>
		<description>Fear is not the framing in which to get anything done. We can't reach our mental potential that way. Moderates respond to a way out that is rational. Behind every emotion there are thoughts, so emotions can direct us or be used to identify a problem and the ideas behind them, if wrong, can be corrected. Therefore emotions can be rational or irrational and both thoughts and feelings can be brought in line to yield to reason.

We need to understand our feelings first, before we can deal with the fears of moderates or conservatives. The field of Emotional Intelligence seems good for some of that along with a little Cognitive Therapy information. That is that emotions have ideas behind them that, if wrong, can be changed with reason, if we get to the thoughts. Then tested intuition guides us in how to proceed an get what is best for ourselves and the environment. 
A lot of the power of the forces in this world is that they know how to control us with emotions. It's better that we should know also, or we are not at the helm and become a subject and a victim. 
Intuition and knowledge can guide us through the most complex situations and the intuition can tell us where to get the knowledge or solve depression mostly automatically, if trained. 

Rulers have alway yielded to the people. Louis XVI and Nicholas II for instance, but the people didn't change that much and there is the problem. It has to be a global mind shift, not just on issues, but perhaps more importantly on the mind part.

I can't say much more except that switching from judgmental words to accurate descriptive ones causes a mind shift that won't quite and compassion comes with it. I think we need that kind of mind shift most of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fear is not the framing in which to get anything done. We can&#8217;t reach our mental potential that way. Moderates respond to a way out that is rational. Behind every emotion there are thoughts, so emotions can direct us or be used to identify a problem and the ideas behind them, if wrong, can be corrected. Therefore emotions can be rational or irrational and both thoughts and feelings can be brought in line to yield to reason.</p>
<p>We need to understand our feelings first, before we can deal with the fears of moderates or conservatives. The field of Emotional Intelligence seems good for some of that along with a little Cognitive Therapy information. That is that emotions have ideas behind them that, if wrong, can be changed with reason, if we get to the thoughts. Then tested intuition guides us in how to proceed an get what is best for ourselves and the environment.<br />
A lot of the power of the forces in this world is that they know how to control us with emotions. It&#8217;s better that we should know also, or we are not at the helm and become a subject and a victim.<br />
Intuition and knowledge can guide us through the most complex situations and the intuition can tell us where to get the knowledge or solve depression mostly automatically, if trained. </p>
<p>Rulers have alway yielded to the people. Louis XVI and Nicholas II for instance, but the people didn&#8217;t change that much and there is the problem. It has to be a global mind shift, not just on issues, but perhaps more importantly on the mind part.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say much more except that switching from judgmental words to accurate descriptive ones causes a mind shift that won&#8217;t quite and compassion comes with it. I think we need that kind of mind shift most of all.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Jody Boehnert</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-2125</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody Boehnert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-2125</guid>
		<description>BBC’s ‘Ethical Man’ Justin Rowlatt ‘Are Environmentalists Bad for the Planet?’ fails to recognize that a certain set of values are deeply embedded into the content of his radio show, the BBC, and all media/communications. In fact, Rowlatt himself plays as a particularly strong role as a social engineer / cultural influencer, reinforcing a set of values (i.e. the status quo in this case), by misrepresenting discourses in environmental ethics and using his platform as a public intellectual ('the ethical man') to mock environmentalists with a social conscience. 

The BBC could hardly have made a more shallow attempt to engage with contemporary environmental crises. It does led one to wonder if in the upper echelons of the BBC they make strategic decisions to circumvent important public debate by putting the least sympathetic individuals into important roles. From a perspective that acknowledges that all media is political, the show certainly does a good job of reinforcing conservative and elitist politics.

Justin Rowlatt can ignore his own role in perpetuating a deeply unsustainable practice because his is the dominant ideology - so it seems 'natural'. Nevertheless, these hegemonic ideological assumptions are deeply problematic - environmentally and socially. Individuals such as Rowlatt can carve out a good career for themselves by aligning themselves with elites against all those troublesome environments who want social change as well as lower carbon emissions. What is shocking is that this is given a platform on public radio. It strikes me that the 'ethical man' is some kind of ironic joke, that's not funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBC’s ‘Ethical Man’ Justin Rowlatt ‘Are Environmentalists Bad for the Planet?’ fails to recognize that a certain set of values are deeply embedded into the content of his radio show, the BBC, and all media/communications. In fact, Rowlatt himself plays as a particularly strong role as a social engineer / cultural influencer, reinforcing a set of values (i.e. the status quo in this case), by misrepresenting discourses in environmental ethics and using his platform as a public intellectual (&#8217;the ethical man&#8217;) to mock environmentalists with a social conscience. </p>
<p>The BBC could hardly have made a more shallow attempt to engage with contemporary environmental crises. It does led one to wonder if in the upper echelons of the BBC they make strategic decisions to circumvent important public debate by putting the least sympathetic individuals into important roles. From a perspective that acknowledges that all media is political, the show certainly does a good job of reinforcing conservative and elitist politics.</p>
<p>Justin Rowlatt can ignore his own role in perpetuating a deeply unsustainable practice because his is the dominant ideology - so it seems &#8216;natural&#8217;. Nevertheless, these hegemonic ideological assumptions are deeply problematic - environmentally and socially. Individuals such as Rowlatt can carve out a good career for themselves by aligning themselves with elites against all those troublesome environments who want social change as well as lower carbon emissions. What is shocking is that this is given a platform on public radio. It strikes me that the &#8216;ethical man&#8217; is some kind of ironic joke, that&#8217;s not funny.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Real reason and false reason: where progressives fail by santiago Gowland</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/02/real-reason-and-false-reason-where-progressives-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-2124</link>
		<dc:creator>santiago Gowland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=731#comment-2124</guid>
		<description>Sorry to have taken almost a year to come back. I was surfing the web and crashed this gate again and saw comments from Jules, Tom and Alaistair... all very interesting. The issue is complex obviously. And that's why it's interesting. The landscape is full of contradictions like the one Tom pointed out between Dove and that particular ad from Axe. But I am still convinced that we are ushering into a new era of marketing where a new space for brands is emerging. Brands that are able to untap consumer democracy and tackle global challenges that very few NGOs, Nations or Multilateral organizations can tackle alone. These challenges require the creation of new market mechanisms; the development of new ways of doing business; the convergence of values and economic motivations. The Marine Stewardship Council that Unilever developed together with WWF and others is a good example where you need companies, NGOs, governments and, the most important ingredient: "conscientious consumers". When these actors join up you can see a snow ball effect shifting a paradigm. 
There are plenty of examples of brands contributing to raise awareness and inspire changes in behavior for good. 
Let's get together for lunch and discuss these issues. My email is tatgow@gmail.com if you are interested to spend an hour or so reflecting on this. Jules, John, Tom, let me know if you are interested.
Santiago</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to have taken almost a year to come back. I was surfing the web and crashed this gate again and saw comments from Jules, Tom and Alaistair&#8230; all very interesting. The issue is complex obviously. And that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s interesting. The landscape is full of contradictions like the one Tom pointed out between Dove and that particular ad from Axe. But I am still convinced that we are ushering into a new era of marketing where a new space for brands is emerging. Brands that are able to untap consumer democracy and tackle global challenges that very few NGOs, Nations or Multilateral organizations can tackle alone. These challenges require the creation of new market mechanisms; the development of new ways of doing business; the convergence of values and economic motivations. The Marine Stewardship Council that Unilever developed together with WWF and others is a good example where you need companies, NGOs, governments and, the most important ingredient: &#8220;conscientious consumers&#8221;. When these actors join up you can see a snow ball effect shifting a paradigm.<br />
There are plenty of examples of brands contributing to raise awareness and inspire changes in behavior for good.<br />
Let&#8217;s get together for lunch and discuss these issues. My email is <a href="mailto:tatgow@gmail.com">tatgow@gmail.com</a> if you are interested to spend an hour or so reflecting on this. Jules, John, Tom, let me know if you are interested.<br />
Santiago</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Tom Crompton</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1935</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Crompton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1935</guid>
		<description>Radio 4 "Feedback" picked up on this, and Roger Bolton gave the Analysis editor a hard time - listen again (at least for another week) at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006slnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radio 4 &#8220;Feedback&#8221; picked up on this, and Roger Bolton gave the Analysis editor a hard time - listen again (at least for another week) at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006slnx" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006slnx</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Ian CHRISTIE</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian CHRISTIE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>The Analysis programme highlighted a set of issues that the environmental and sustainability movements need to confront in their dealings with the mass media. It is almost impossible for the editors, reporters and commissioners in broadcast mass media to step outside an individualist, liberal-economic, consumerist worldview. Any set of proposals that involve other values is inevitably presented as ideology (as if the default consumer model is not ideology itself) and counter-cultural. There is no point complaining about this failing of programmes such as Justin Rowlatt's. What can and should be done by those appearing on such programmes is , I think, as follows: a) challenge the idea that technofixes can leave present consumptions patterns intact while dealing with unsustainable trends ; and b) point out that the values underpinning modern consumerism are recent developments and were vigorously promoted by anti-establishment campaigners in the 70s and early 80s - Mrs Thatcher, for example. Proposals for any kind of radical change in society and economy involve challenges to existing dominant values, and that is true whether one is aiming to promote Futerra-style eco-consumerism or a fundamental reassessment of capitalism and social relations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Analysis programme highlighted a set of issues that the environmental and sustainability movements need to confront in their dealings with the mass media. It is almost impossible for the editors, reporters and commissioners in broadcast mass media to step outside an individualist, liberal-economic, consumerist worldview. Any set of proposals that involve other values is inevitably presented as ideology (as if the default consumer model is not ideology itself) and counter-cultural. There is no point complaining about this failing of programmes such as Justin Rowlatt&#8217;s. What can and should be done by those appearing on such programmes is , I think, as follows: a) challenge the idea that technofixes can leave present consumptions patterns intact while dealing with unsustainable trends ; and b) point out that the values underpinning modern consumerism are recent developments and were vigorously promoted by anti-establishment campaigners in the 70s and early 80s - Mrs Thatcher, for example. Proposals for any kind of radical change in society and economy involve challenges to existing dominant values, and that is true whether one is aiming to promote Futerra-style eco-consumerism or a fundamental reassessment of capitalism and social relations.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Joe Brewer</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>I agree with Shilpa that we can avoid the &lt;a href="http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/learning-center/resources/thinking-points/chapter-1-winning-and-losing/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Reaction Trap&lt;/a&gt; by going strongly on the positive and letting the criticisms either (a) fall to the wayside, or (b) help them to look as small and petty as they actually are compared to the aspirational work we are doing here.

We are engaging in some of the most fundamentally important work confronting humanity.  By seeking to understand human behavior at a systemic level, our hope is to help align the institutions of society (including marketing and media) with the needs of human beings in a time of great strife.  While the people at Futerra continue to disingenuously paint us in false colors to advance their agenda, we'll continue developing the tools and insights that are needed to create solutions.

But this will only work, as Shilpa suggests, if we collaborate with one another and create synergies among us.

Best,

Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Shilpa that we can avoid the <a href="http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/learning-center/resources/thinking-points/chapter-1-winning-and-losing/" rel="nofollow">Reaction Trap</a> by going strongly on the positive and letting the criticisms either (a) fall to the wayside, or (b) help them to look as small and petty as they actually are compared to the aspirational work we are doing here.</p>
<p>We are engaging in some of the most fundamentally important work confronting humanity.  By seeking to understand human behavior at a systemic level, our hope is to help align the institutions of society (including marketing and media) with the needs of human beings in a time of great strife.  While the people at Futerra continue to disingenuously paint us in false colors to advance their agenda, we&#8217;ll continue developing the tools and insights that are needed to create solutions.</p>
<p>But this will only work, as Shilpa suggests, if we collaborate with one another and create synergies among us.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Joe</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Shilpa</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1820</link>
		<dc:creator>Shilpa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1820</guid>
		<description>Futerra's whole business model is built on the continuing success of current unhappy world order. As long as we can consume our way out of climate change, their clients - a list which includes Shell, Toyota and E-on - will continue to pay them handsomely. 

There's no magic wand! It's too big to take on? Head under the duvet? Easier to concentrate on marginal, tinkering, yet money - making solutions within the current mad paradigm?  OK. But lashing out at Identity campaigning won't help.

To the writers on this site and to everyone who recognises that we need to be a bit cleverer and work a bit deeper than we have been doing, can I suggest something? If we let ourselves, we can work together in better and better ways - we have the potential to be transformational.
 Let's focus our energy on the positive work we do getting out and engaging with people. On being non-judgemental, honest, creative and alive. On bringing joy and magic into our work. On being in the present moment. On talking about happiness and quality of life, not just x% by 2020/2050. On being more effective and strong as a movement.

Let's side step the kind of criticisms above and get on with it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Futerra&#8217;s whole business model is built on the continuing success of current unhappy world order. As long as we can consume our way out of climate change, their clients - a list which includes Shell, Toyota and E-on - will continue to pay them handsomely. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no magic wand! It&#8217;s too big to take on? Head under the duvet? Easier to concentrate on marginal, tinkering, yet money - making solutions within the current mad paradigm?  OK. But lashing out at Identity campaigning won&#8217;t help.</p>
<p>To the writers on this site and to everyone who recognises that we need to be a bit cleverer and work a bit deeper than we have been doing, can I suggest something? If we let ourselves, we can work together in better and better ways - we have the potential to be transformational.<br />
 Let&#8217;s focus our energy on the positive work we do getting out and engaging with people. On being non-judgemental, honest, creative and alive. On bringing joy and magic into our work. On being in the present moment. On talking about happiness and quality of life, not just x% by 2020/2050. On being more effective and strong as a movement.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s side step the kind of criticisms above and get on with it?</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Patrick Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1811</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1811</guid>
		<description>While I agree with you in principle, I think you have to concede that the 'consumer/culture' paradigm cannot be removed just because we demand that it should be. Unfortunately, that is the way most individuals (in the rich countries) do see the world now - and they also see themselves as individuals first and members of society second. They are willing participants - it's not just a vast corporate conspiracy. I didn't agree with the angle and conclusions of the Analysis programme, but I think it's a debate worth having - most people are resistant if not downright hostile to any response that will entail making radical changes to their comfortable lifestyles (beyond a bit of recycling and a few new lightbulbs), and you have to acknowledge that. 'Hard-line' environmental arguments generally only work on the those who are already converts. On the programme Porritt suggested starting with a market-led approach (e.g. cap and trade), though he didn't think it would ultimately be enough. A pragmatic compromise, but I think he might be right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with you in principle, I think you have to concede that the &#8216;consumer/culture&#8217; paradigm cannot be removed just because we demand that it should be. Unfortunately, that is the way most individuals (in the rich countries) do see the world now - and they also see themselves as individuals first and members of society second. They are willing participants - it&#8217;s not just a vast corporate conspiracy. I didn&#8217;t agree with the angle and conclusions of the Analysis programme, but I think it&#8217;s a debate worth having - most people are resistant if not downright hostile to any response that will entail making radical changes to their comfortable lifestyles (beyond a bit of recycling and a few new lightbulbs), and you have to acknowledge that. &#8216;Hard-line&#8217; environmental arguments generally only work on the those who are already converts. On the programme Porritt suggested starting with a market-led approach (e.g. cap and trade), though he didn&#8217;t think it would ultimately be enough. A pragmatic compromise, but I think he might be right.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by GreyCells</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1810</link>
		<dc:creator>GreyCells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1810</guid>
		<description>"Are we ”engineered” by ad men...?"

Why else would the 'easily led' be making fools of themselves in SUVs? 

"&lt;strike&gt;Buy&lt;/strike&gt;Lease a bigger, wider, higher more expensive car and you'll feel like the king of the road, looking down on your fellow man.". Appeals to the shallow base instincts that inspires the 'white van man' behaviour.

Poor sops bought the marketing wholesale and now are laughed at by those who are able to think for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Are we ”engineered” by ad men&#8230;?&#8221;</p>
<p>Why else would the &#8216;easily led&#8217; be making fools of themselves in SUVs? </p>
<p>&#8220;<strike>Buy</strike>Lease a bigger, wider, higher more expensive car and you&#8217;ll feel like the king of the road, looking down on your fellow man.&#8221;. Appeals to the shallow base instincts that inspires the &#8216;white van man&#8217; behaviour.</p>
<p>Poor sops bought the marketing wholesale and now are laughed at by those who are able to think for themselves.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Whiff of Social Engineering? by Ciaran Mundy</title>
		<link>http://www.identitycampaigning.org/2010/01/a-whiff-of-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-1808</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciaran Mundy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.identitycampaigning.org/?p=718#comment-1808</guid>
		<description>How Ridiculous! So it's ok to market/advertise relentlessly at people and make them feel insecure but appealing to their better natures is scary and manipulative. Bizarre!

The consumer culture paradigm reigns supreme! It's normal so it must be OK.

It's good old fashioned journo trick. Set up the straw man, conflate lots of ideas and different people's work behind it and deliver your own value laden conclusions as if you were taking the only rational position possible. Front it with apparently concerned and objective people to sum it all up. 

At no point does he approach the issue, that the huge changes required and many changes we cannot avoid, require political response and many of us are just honestly trying to address that rather than pretending it's about individual shopping choices.

His narrow thinking is frustrating but of no surprise when you see his conclusion for the lowest carbon form of transport. . . . the car! And that planes are equatable to forms of transport such as buses and trains.

Justin Rowlatt suffers the same blinkered way of seeing everything through the eyes of the individual consumer, rather than the need for collective agreement and demand for the best available choices and restrictions on those which are unsustainable. We need the latter and it seems fanciful in the extreme to believe we can 'sell' those changes on the basis of self esteem and greed AND insulting to suggest that we all need to be changed into different types of people to want to act in such a manner.

Yes disingenuous but that's the way this type of journalism works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How Ridiculous! So it&#8217;s ok to market/advertise relentlessly at people and make them feel insecure but appealing to their better natures is scary and manipulative. Bizarre!</p>
<p>The consumer culture paradigm reigns supreme! It&#8217;s normal so it must be OK.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good old fashioned journo trick. Set up the straw man, conflate lots of ideas and different people&#8217;s work behind it and deliver your own value laden conclusions as if you were taking the only rational position possible. Front it with apparently concerned and objective people to sum it all up. </p>
<p>At no point does he approach the issue, that the huge changes required and many changes we cannot avoid, require political response and many of us are just honestly trying to address that rather than pretending it&#8217;s about individual shopping choices.</p>
<p>His narrow thinking is frustrating but of no surprise when you see his conclusion for the lowest carbon form of transport. . . . the car! And that planes are equatable to forms of transport such as buses and trains.</p>
<p>Justin Rowlatt suffers the same blinkered way of seeing everything through the eyes of the individual consumer, rather than the need for collective agreement and demand for the best available choices and restrictions on those which are unsustainable. We need the latter and it seems fanciful in the extreme to believe we can &#8217;sell&#8217; those changes on the basis of self esteem and greed AND insulting to suggest that we all need to be changed into different types of people to want to act in such a manner.</p>
<p>Yes disingenuous but that&#8217;s the way this type of journalism works.</p>
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